2021.4.14.1400. (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). And in any case, if the ATC says you need to get out of the airspace, you do it. Even the big airline pilots (American, Delta, etc.) The requested documents will be made available to the general public, and this request is not being made for commercial purposes. He should have declared an emergency when denied entry into Bravo. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to ask him "are you refusing an air traffic control clearance?" There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Keep up the anti-mask bs. I won't belabor those points. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. Friday. Editorial Disclosure: The editorial content on this page is not provided by any entity mentioned herein. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. And an ATP should be a few thousand. Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. Always IFR but I still remember feeling like a pain in the ass for asking for VFR service from a controller having a bad day. @Francis Bagbey This kind of thing gets people killed. Not buying the sick daughter excuse. Everybody said most of everything I would want to say. It is a technical term that means that the pilot in command failed to observe FAA regulations, ATC clearances, or temporary flight restrictions in the conduct of his/her flight. If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Caller - is he available, Whether BR was cleared or not he was tracked and being separated. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will fly next to a cessna and then hold up a sign (that conveniently they stashed in the cockpit) and write on it with a magic marker. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. The wheels of justice grind slowly but they do grind - Ken White (a lawyer and a good one). Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. 08:47PM EDT Montreal-Trudeau - YUL. No one commented on the commercial airliner that had to deviate (immediate drop in altitude) from his glide path when he got a visual on the offending email plane. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. If N1NR requested clearance but did not hear back from ATC, they would have to repeat the request as they cannot assume what ATC heard; however, it is highly unlikely that even if ATC heard the request they would allow N1NR clearance into Bravo. | Busted Bravo Airspace VASAviation - 519K subscribers Join Subscribe 9.7K 728K views 2 years ago Date: 20/JUN/2020 Your support is really. I received a disc from the FAA containing the Air Traffic Organization response and I loaded everything from that disc into this Google Drive folder. For those that don't want to read. Wnt to the FBO called the ATC sup from the day before had him and the controller involved from the previous flight, made student apologize for his behavior requested they critique student radio skill (he always had a cigar stub in his mouth, refused to remove it). LAS may not have even heard the static. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . All I can say is ATC should be paid for saving people's lives!!!!! Go get him FAA!!! Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. When Can You Deviate From an ATC Clearance? I suspect the way this will be (or has been) settled is that both the controller and the pilot will be counseled respectively on what they could have done to prevent the situation. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . I almost always fly IFR. The problem is with dangerous attitude. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? 3h 18m. Please provide a copy of all records previously provided under FOIA request: 2020-007074WS . Just to offer a slightly different perspective on all of this, I am wondering if there's a medical issue here, in which some sympathy might be warranted. and our That award goes to the pilot of PK8303 who ignored multiple warnings about how he was too high and fast, and then tried to land with gear up before killing almost everyone on board. That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. There are riots. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". This guy is a class-one "all about me" narcissist who makes GA pilots look bad. LAS: "You have to have a Bravo clearance. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. He risked lives at the time of this incident, and in the future if pilots aren't seriously punished for this kind of behavior. "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not forthemselves, and under a just God, cannot long retain it. Now he may have requested clearance BUT requesting clearance and being granted clearance are two different things. ). The tower controller likely doesn't care, as he won't be handling it. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N731NR). You have successfully joined our subscriber list. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. I'd always much rather be proactive and prevent a pilot deviation. You can listen along to ATC at liveatc.net and search for RDU in the upper left. This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. She didn't take the high road when he became argumentative. To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System ( EIS ). What a name for a company! Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. I'm flying.". This guy intentionally violated it, then took up ATC's time fighting about it. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. What's the big deal? I'd like to know more about the outcome. That's no cause to kill him. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. On Reddit they doxed him. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. Don't assume the pilot flying owns the aircraft. Open the communication! When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Talk to your psychotherapist. But if we want to affect change, we need to do it safely and respectfully. Essentially, you have the right to be aware that you are in trouble after making a mistake. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. 1) Probably not hypoxia. He did not damage anybody. But generally, we want what is best (safest as well as most enjoyable) for the users. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. ], Subject: RE: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. This guy has absolutely no business being in command of an automobile, much less an aircraft in class B airspace. Wrong. He endangered so many people. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. How hard would it be to just clear him through? As we have previously mentioned, the penalties for pilot deviation can be very severe, and the action itself can often be deadly. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? I assume the ATC reports him to the FAA and the FAA investigates? I'm only going this way because something in his demeanor smells like something else is at play. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. Flying his bird may get a lot less pleasant REAL fast. Maybe on a subconscious level, you realize that there are departures off of Runway 27R as well. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? I'll give you the number when you're ready to copy. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). The report said the pilot was distracted adjusting the climate control on approach. Good luck. Please inform me prior to conducting any service demanding fees.I would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment if available or CD-ROM if not. While working on my instrument rating and flying in and out of Midway airport I heard dozens of Southwest pilots being human, and missing instructions, blowing through airspeed restrictions, among other FAR violations and getting dressed down by ATC when they goofed up. This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. - file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan that gives you the same priority as airline traffic. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. You have to request a Bravo clearance. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. I will answer the question exactly as written: > When ATC has you call. Id. With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. Get the stick out of your asses". She was released later on. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. I dont see any defense to his behavior. If the worst were to happen, people could lose their lives due to pilot deviation, which is not something that anyone wants to have on their conscience. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. This was a blatant disregard of regulations after being told to exit the Class B. Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O) 202-267-6352alan.billings@faa.gov, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. Even if the controller cleared him into Bravo, that's no place to question her. Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. They got a full 2/3 of their pilots certificated!! Las Vegas class B is the only one Ive flown close to when I was on flight following trying to get into Henderson and they told me to squak 1200 and see ya. He did request a clearance. saturn in ardra nakshatra pada 2 n731nr pilot deviation. The belligerent behavior of the pilot with the controller and the sound of his voice makes me wonder if this might have been suffering from mild hypoxia. He was the one that escalated the situation to where the ATC got flustered/put off by his response. The company is owned by Jeff Wachner, a real estate agent in Southern California. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports.